Does what Captain America does at the end of Endgame contradict what we've heard before in the film?





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2















A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?











share|improve this question

























  • Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    6 hours ago











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    3 hours ago


















2















A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?











share|improve this question

























  • Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    6 hours ago











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    3 hours ago














2












2








2








A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?











share|improve this question
















A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?








marvel marvel-cinematic-universe captain-america avengers-endgame






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 16 mins ago









TheLethalCarrot

54.4k20312356




54.4k20312356










asked 7 hours ago









Alex KinmanAlex Kinman

769321




769321













  • Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    6 hours ago











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    3 hours ago



















  • Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    6 hours ago











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    3 hours ago

















Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

– Valorum
6 hours ago





Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

– Valorum
6 hours ago













You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

– TheLethalCarrot
5 hours ago





You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

– TheLethalCarrot
5 hours ago




1




1





@Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

– Chris
3 hours ago





@Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

– Chris
3 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















13














Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



So, you're looking at a closed loop.




Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    9 mins ago











  • I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    8 mins ago











  • Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    4 mins ago












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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes









13














Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



So, you're looking at a closed loop.




Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    9 mins ago











  • I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    8 mins ago











  • Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    4 mins ago
















13














Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



So, you're looking at a closed loop.




Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    9 mins ago











  • I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    8 mins ago











  • Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    4 mins ago














13












13








13







Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



So, you're looking at a closed loop.




Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







share|improve this answer















Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



So, you're looking at a closed loop.




Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.








share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago

























answered 6 hours ago









Keith MorrisonKeith Morrison

9,82711935




9,82711935








  • 1





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    9 mins ago











  • I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    8 mins ago











  • Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    4 mins ago














  • 1





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    9 mins ago











  • I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    8 mins ago











  • Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    4 mins ago








1




1





That summarises it well!

– Stark07
5 hours ago





That summarises it well!

– Stark07
5 hours ago




2




2





Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

– Dhon Joe
5 hours ago





Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

– Dhon Joe
5 hours ago




1




1





I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

– Goose
9 mins ago





I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

– Goose
9 mins ago













I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

– Borgh
8 mins ago





I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

– Borgh
8 mins ago













Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

– David Mulder
4 mins ago





Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

– David Mulder
4 mins ago


















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