How and when did 'being fired' come to mean losing one's job?












7















I searched this site and also searched etymology online and could find nothing about this question.



The Ngram AmE shows that the phrase 'fired from job' began in the early 1920s for AmE and the Ngram BrE indicates that BrE only begins to have results from the late 1960s.



In BrE, the phrase 'being sacked' (Ngram BrE) is more popular and is more understandable as one would carry a sack home with any personal possessions, much as today people are seen with the ubiquitous cardboard box.



Where does the expression come from and why did it suddenly appear in the 1920s in the USA ?



Note: The Ngrams probably do not mean a lot, as there must be overlap with other meanings of 'being sacked' and merely querying 'being fired' would be useless.



===================================================================



Edit After Comment : The Ngram for 'given the sack' in BrE. Some correaltion with 'being fired' in AmE.



Further Edit : The OED does not (that I can find) refer to losing a job but there is a considerable entry for 'fire' with regard to the discharge of a weapon so I am beginning to see that 'fire' from a job means to 'discharge' someone and the analogy is to weaponry.










share|improve this question




















  • 4





    The same metaphorical development of the verb fire (first: lighting fire; then: using fire to ward off or repel; then: shooting off a projectile with fire; then: ‘shooting off’ a person from their job) is also found in the Nordic languages, where it’s definitely attested well before the 1920s, though I don’t know how long before. (Also, is sacked really more understandable? The explanation you give never occurred to me before – I’d always sort of half-imagined someone being stuffed into a sack, which somehow meant losing their job…)

    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago











  • @JanusBahsJacquet, AFAIK, Brits also use sacked in the form "given the sack" which would make a much clearer connection to the origin OP attributed to it.

    – The Photon
    7 hours ago











  • I thought 'being sacked' involved being put into a sack and left on the side of the road.

    – Mitch
    5 hours ago
















7















I searched this site and also searched etymology online and could find nothing about this question.



The Ngram AmE shows that the phrase 'fired from job' began in the early 1920s for AmE and the Ngram BrE indicates that BrE only begins to have results from the late 1960s.



In BrE, the phrase 'being sacked' (Ngram BrE) is more popular and is more understandable as one would carry a sack home with any personal possessions, much as today people are seen with the ubiquitous cardboard box.



Where does the expression come from and why did it suddenly appear in the 1920s in the USA ?



Note: The Ngrams probably do not mean a lot, as there must be overlap with other meanings of 'being sacked' and merely querying 'being fired' would be useless.



===================================================================



Edit After Comment : The Ngram for 'given the sack' in BrE. Some correaltion with 'being fired' in AmE.



Further Edit : The OED does not (that I can find) refer to losing a job but there is a considerable entry for 'fire' with regard to the discharge of a weapon so I am beginning to see that 'fire' from a job means to 'discharge' someone and the analogy is to weaponry.










share|improve this question




















  • 4





    The same metaphorical development of the verb fire (first: lighting fire; then: using fire to ward off or repel; then: shooting off a projectile with fire; then: ‘shooting off’ a person from their job) is also found in the Nordic languages, where it’s definitely attested well before the 1920s, though I don’t know how long before. (Also, is sacked really more understandable? The explanation you give never occurred to me before – I’d always sort of half-imagined someone being stuffed into a sack, which somehow meant losing their job…)

    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago











  • @JanusBahsJacquet, AFAIK, Brits also use sacked in the form "given the sack" which would make a much clearer connection to the origin OP attributed to it.

    – The Photon
    7 hours ago











  • I thought 'being sacked' involved being put into a sack and left on the side of the road.

    – Mitch
    5 hours ago














7












7








7








I searched this site and also searched etymology online and could find nothing about this question.



The Ngram AmE shows that the phrase 'fired from job' began in the early 1920s for AmE and the Ngram BrE indicates that BrE only begins to have results from the late 1960s.



In BrE, the phrase 'being sacked' (Ngram BrE) is more popular and is more understandable as one would carry a sack home with any personal possessions, much as today people are seen with the ubiquitous cardboard box.



Where does the expression come from and why did it suddenly appear in the 1920s in the USA ?



Note: The Ngrams probably do not mean a lot, as there must be overlap with other meanings of 'being sacked' and merely querying 'being fired' would be useless.



===================================================================



Edit After Comment : The Ngram for 'given the sack' in BrE. Some correaltion with 'being fired' in AmE.



Further Edit : The OED does not (that I can find) refer to losing a job but there is a considerable entry for 'fire' with regard to the discharge of a weapon so I am beginning to see that 'fire' from a job means to 'discharge' someone and the analogy is to weaponry.










share|improve this question
















I searched this site and also searched etymology online and could find nothing about this question.



The Ngram AmE shows that the phrase 'fired from job' began in the early 1920s for AmE and the Ngram BrE indicates that BrE only begins to have results from the late 1960s.



In BrE, the phrase 'being sacked' (Ngram BrE) is more popular and is more understandable as one would carry a sack home with any personal possessions, much as today people are seen with the ubiquitous cardboard box.



Where does the expression come from and why did it suddenly appear in the 1920s in the USA ?



Note: The Ngrams probably do not mean a lot, as there must be overlap with other meanings of 'being sacked' and merely querying 'being fired' would be useless.



===================================================================



Edit After Comment : The Ngram for 'given the sack' in BrE. Some correaltion with 'being fired' in AmE.



Further Edit : The OED does not (that I can find) refer to losing a job but there is a considerable entry for 'fire' with regard to the discharge of a weapon so I am beginning to see that 'fire' from a job means to 'discharge' someone and the analogy is to weaponry.







etymology american-english






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago







Nigel J

















asked 7 hours ago









Nigel JNigel J

17k94482




17k94482








  • 4





    The same metaphorical development of the verb fire (first: lighting fire; then: using fire to ward off or repel; then: shooting off a projectile with fire; then: ‘shooting off’ a person from their job) is also found in the Nordic languages, where it’s definitely attested well before the 1920s, though I don’t know how long before. (Also, is sacked really more understandable? The explanation you give never occurred to me before – I’d always sort of half-imagined someone being stuffed into a sack, which somehow meant losing their job…)

    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago











  • @JanusBahsJacquet, AFAIK, Brits also use sacked in the form "given the sack" which would make a much clearer connection to the origin OP attributed to it.

    – The Photon
    7 hours ago











  • I thought 'being sacked' involved being put into a sack and left on the side of the road.

    – Mitch
    5 hours ago














  • 4





    The same metaphorical development of the verb fire (first: lighting fire; then: using fire to ward off or repel; then: shooting off a projectile with fire; then: ‘shooting off’ a person from their job) is also found in the Nordic languages, where it’s definitely attested well before the 1920s, though I don’t know how long before. (Also, is sacked really more understandable? The explanation you give never occurred to me before – I’d always sort of half-imagined someone being stuffed into a sack, which somehow meant losing their job…)

    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago











  • @JanusBahsJacquet, AFAIK, Brits also use sacked in the form "given the sack" which would make a much clearer connection to the origin OP attributed to it.

    – The Photon
    7 hours ago











  • I thought 'being sacked' involved being put into a sack and left on the side of the road.

    – Mitch
    5 hours ago








4




4





The same metaphorical development of the verb fire (first: lighting fire; then: using fire to ward off or repel; then: shooting off a projectile with fire; then: ‘shooting off’ a person from their job) is also found in the Nordic languages, where it’s definitely attested well before the 1920s, though I don’t know how long before. (Also, is sacked really more understandable? The explanation you give never occurred to me before – I’d always sort of half-imagined someone being stuffed into a sack, which somehow meant losing their job…)

– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago





The same metaphorical development of the verb fire (first: lighting fire; then: using fire to ward off or repel; then: shooting off a projectile with fire; then: ‘shooting off’ a person from their job) is also found in the Nordic languages, where it’s definitely attested well before the 1920s, though I don’t know how long before. (Also, is sacked really more understandable? The explanation you give never occurred to me before – I’d always sort of half-imagined someone being stuffed into a sack, which somehow meant losing their job…)

– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago













@JanusBahsJacquet, AFAIK, Brits also use sacked in the form "given the sack" which would make a much clearer connection to the origin OP attributed to it.

– The Photon
7 hours ago





@JanusBahsJacquet, AFAIK, Brits also use sacked in the form "given the sack" which would make a much clearer connection to the origin OP attributed to it.

– The Photon
7 hours ago













I thought 'being sacked' involved being put into a sack and left on the side of the road.

– Mitch
5 hours ago





I thought 'being sacked' involved being put into a sack and left on the side of the road.

– Mitch
5 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3














There’s a slightly earlier sense of “fired” meaning “eject or dismiss” that just dates to 1877 according to the OED:




She was advised to ‘hire a hall’, and the chairman was asked to ‘fire her out’.
Annals of the Great Strikes in the United States




The OED’s earliest citation in the no-more-job sense is from the 1879 Cincinnati Enquirer (reprinted here):




Professional Slang... Fired, Banged, Shot Out—When a performer is discharged he is one of the above.




The OED connects this to firing a gun: just like a bullet, whoever gets fired is outta there real fast.






share|improve this answer

































    2














    to fire in the sense of being fired: Etymonline.com




    The sense of "sack, dismiss from employment" is recorded by 1885 (with
    out; 1887 alone) in American English. This probably is a play on the
    two meanings of discharge (v.): "to dismiss from a position," and "to
    fire a gun," influenced by the earlier general sense "throw (someone)
    out" of some place (1871).




    and from the OED





    • fire 1879

    • transitive orig. U.S. slang. To dismiss (a person) from a job or position; to sack.







    share|improve this answer

































      1














      This source, Right Attitudes, admits that its explanation for being fired may be a legend.




      ...legend has it that the phrase originated in the 1910s at the
      National Cash Register (NCR) Company.




      The founder of NCR, John Henry Patterson, was "quirky". The article states that he was "a food and fitness fanatic and had his employees weighed every six months." This quirkiness makes the following explanation of the origin of being fired marginally more plausible.



      The article cites two cases of Patterson dismissing an employee -- one of whom was Thomas Watson Sr., who went on to found IBM -- and then ordering his desk taken outside and set afire.! Thus, although it was the employee's desk that was fired, the phrase was used of the employee.



      The article states its source as:




      Keynote address by Mark Hurd, then-president and COO of Teradata at
      Kellogg School of Management’s Digital Frontier Conference on 17- and
      18-Jan-2003. Teradata was previously a division of NCR Corporation,
      the company Patterson founded.







      share|improve this answer



















      • 1





        Which would appear to be contradicted by the above references from the 1800s.

        – Hot Licks
        4 hours ago











      Your Answer








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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3














      There’s a slightly earlier sense of “fired” meaning “eject or dismiss” that just dates to 1877 according to the OED:




      She was advised to ‘hire a hall’, and the chairman was asked to ‘fire her out’.
      Annals of the Great Strikes in the United States




      The OED’s earliest citation in the no-more-job sense is from the 1879 Cincinnati Enquirer (reprinted here):




      Professional Slang... Fired, Banged, Shot Out—When a performer is discharged he is one of the above.




      The OED connects this to firing a gun: just like a bullet, whoever gets fired is outta there real fast.






      share|improve this answer






























        3














        There’s a slightly earlier sense of “fired” meaning “eject or dismiss” that just dates to 1877 according to the OED:




        She was advised to ‘hire a hall’, and the chairman was asked to ‘fire her out’.
        Annals of the Great Strikes in the United States




        The OED’s earliest citation in the no-more-job sense is from the 1879 Cincinnati Enquirer (reprinted here):




        Professional Slang... Fired, Banged, Shot Out—When a performer is discharged he is one of the above.




        The OED connects this to firing a gun: just like a bullet, whoever gets fired is outta there real fast.






        share|improve this answer




























          3












          3








          3







          There’s a slightly earlier sense of “fired” meaning “eject or dismiss” that just dates to 1877 according to the OED:




          She was advised to ‘hire a hall’, and the chairman was asked to ‘fire her out’.
          Annals of the Great Strikes in the United States




          The OED’s earliest citation in the no-more-job sense is from the 1879 Cincinnati Enquirer (reprinted here):




          Professional Slang... Fired, Banged, Shot Out—When a performer is discharged he is one of the above.




          The OED connects this to firing a gun: just like a bullet, whoever gets fired is outta there real fast.






          share|improve this answer















          There’s a slightly earlier sense of “fired” meaning “eject or dismiss” that just dates to 1877 according to the OED:




          She was advised to ‘hire a hall’, and the chairman was asked to ‘fire her out’.
          Annals of the Great Strikes in the United States




          The OED’s earliest citation in the no-more-job sense is from the 1879 Cincinnati Enquirer (reprinted here):




          Professional Slang... Fired, Banged, Shot Out—When a performer is discharged he is one of the above.




          The OED connects this to firing a gun: just like a bullet, whoever gets fired is outta there real fast.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 5 hours ago

























          answered 5 hours ago









          LaurelLaurel

          32.7k663115




          32.7k663115

























              2














              to fire in the sense of being fired: Etymonline.com




              The sense of "sack, dismiss from employment" is recorded by 1885 (with
              out; 1887 alone) in American English. This probably is a play on the
              two meanings of discharge (v.): "to dismiss from a position," and "to
              fire a gun," influenced by the earlier general sense "throw (someone)
              out" of some place (1871).




              and from the OED





              • fire 1879

              • transitive orig. U.S. slang. To dismiss (a person) from a job or position; to sack.







              share|improve this answer






























                2














                to fire in the sense of being fired: Etymonline.com




                The sense of "sack, dismiss from employment" is recorded by 1885 (with
                out; 1887 alone) in American English. This probably is a play on the
                two meanings of discharge (v.): "to dismiss from a position," and "to
                fire a gun," influenced by the earlier general sense "throw (someone)
                out" of some place (1871).




                and from the OED





                • fire 1879

                • transitive orig. U.S. slang. To dismiss (a person) from a job or position; to sack.







                share|improve this answer




























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  to fire in the sense of being fired: Etymonline.com




                  The sense of "sack, dismiss from employment" is recorded by 1885 (with
                  out; 1887 alone) in American English. This probably is a play on the
                  two meanings of discharge (v.): "to dismiss from a position," and "to
                  fire a gun," influenced by the earlier general sense "throw (someone)
                  out" of some place (1871).




                  and from the OED





                  • fire 1879

                  • transitive orig. U.S. slang. To dismiss (a person) from a job or position; to sack.







                  share|improve this answer















                  to fire in the sense of being fired: Etymonline.com




                  The sense of "sack, dismiss from employment" is recorded by 1885 (with
                  out; 1887 alone) in American English. This probably is a play on the
                  two meanings of discharge (v.): "to dismiss from a position," and "to
                  fire a gun," influenced by the earlier general sense "throw (someone)
                  out" of some place (1871).




                  and from the OED





                  • fire 1879

                  • transitive orig. U.S. slang. To dismiss (a person) from a job or position; to sack.








                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 5 hours ago

























                  answered 5 hours ago









                  lbflbf

                  20.8k22573




                  20.8k22573























                      1














                      This source, Right Attitudes, admits that its explanation for being fired may be a legend.




                      ...legend has it that the phrase originated in the 1910s at the
                      National Cash Register (NCR) Company.




                      The founder of NCR, John Henry Patterson, was "quirky". The article states that he was "a food and fitness fanatic and had his employees weighed every six months." This quirkiness makes the following explanation of the origin of being fired marginally more plausible.



                      The article cites two cases of Patterson dismissing an employee -- one of whom was Thomas Watson Sr., who went on to found IBM -- and then ordering his desk taken outside and set afire.! Thus, although it was the employee's desk that was fired, the phrase was used of the employee.



                      The article states its source as:




                      Keynote address by Mark Hurd, then-president and COO of Teradata at
                      Kellogg School of Management’s Digital Frontier Conference on 17- and
                      18-Jan-2003. Teradata was previously a division of NCR Corporation,
                      the company Patterson founded.







                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 1





                        Which would appear to be contradicted by the above references from the 1800s.

                        – Hot Licks
                        4 hours ago
















                      1














                      This source, Right Attitudes, admits that its explanation for being fired may be a legend.




                      ...legend has it that the phrase originated in the 1910s at the
                      National Cash Register (NCR) Company.




                      The founder of NCR, John Henry Patterson, was "quirky". The article states that he was "a food and fitness fanatic and had his employees weighed every six months." This quirkiness makes the following explanation of the origin of being fired marginally more plausible.



                      The article cites two cases of Patterson dismissing an employee -- one of whom was Thomas Watson Sr., who went on to found IBM -- and then ordering his desk taken outside and set afire.! Thus, although it was the employee's desk that was fired, the phrase was used of the employee.



                      The article states its source as:




                      Keynote address by Mark Hurd, then-president and COO of Teradata at
                      Kellogg School of Management’s Digital Frontier Conference on 17- and
                      18-Jan-2003. Teradata was previously a division of NCR Corporation,
                      the company Patterson founded.







                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 1





                        Which would appear to be contradicted by the above references from the 1800s.

                        – Hot Licks
                        4 hours ago














                      1












                      1








                      1







                      This source, Right Attitudes, admits that its explanation for being fired may be a legend.




                      ...legend has it that the phrase originated in the 1910s at the
                      National Cash Register (NCR) Company.




                      The founder of NCR, John Henry Patterson, was "quirky". The article states that he was "a food and fitness fanatic and had his employees weighed every six months." This quirkiness makes the following explanation of the origin of being fired marginally more plausible.



                      The article cites two cases of Patterson dismissing an employee -- one of whom was Thomas Watson Sr., who went on to found IBM -- and then ordering his desk taken outside and set afire.! Thus, although it was the employee's desk that was fired, the phrase was used of the employee.



                      The article states its source as:




                      Keynote address by Mark Hurd, then-president and COO of Teradata at
                      Kellogg School of Management’s Digital Frontier Conference on 17- and
                      18-Jan-2003. Teradata was previously a division of NCR Corporation,
                      the company Patterson founded.







                      share|improve this answer













                      This source, Right Attitudes, admits that its explanation for being fired may be a legend.




                      ...legend has it that the phrase originated in the 1910s at the
                      National Cash Register (NCR) Company.




                      The founder of NCR, John Henry Patterson, was "quirky". The article states that he was "a food and fitness fanatic and had his employees weighed every six months." This quirkiness makes the following explanation of the origin of being fired marginally more plausible.



                      The article cites two cases of Patterson dismissing an employee -- one of whom was Thomas Watson Sr., who went on to found IBM -- and then ordering his desk taken outside and set afire.! Thus, although it was the employee's desk that was fired, the phrase was used of the employee.



                      The article states its source as:




                      Keynote address by Mark Hurd, then-president and COO of Teradata at
                      Kellogg School of Management’s Digital Frontier Conference on 17- and
                      18-Jan-2003. Teradata was previously a division of NCR Corporation,
                      the company Patterson founded.








                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 6 hours ago









                      ab2ab2

                      24k95995




                      24k95995








                      • 1





                        Which would appear to be contradicted by the above references from the 1800s.

                        – Hot Licks
                        4 hours ago














                      • 1





                        Which would appear to be contradicted by the above references from the 1800s.

                        – Hot Licks
                        4 hours ago








                      1




                      1





                      Which would appear to be contradicted by the above references from the 1800s.

                      – Hot Licks
                      4 hours ago





                      Which would appear to be contradicted by the above references from the 1800s.

                      – Hot Licks
                      4 hours ago


















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